Tags Posts tagged with "soccer"


    Author: Alison Bender

    Well let’s start by getting the stereotypes out of the way. Yes, I’m a girl, yes, I love football and yes, I understand the offside rule! I’ve been reporting at matches for well over a decade now and I’ve seen many a controversial decision, some that years on still make my blood boil, so I understand how important it is to get it right.

    As a Chelsea fan, the night that will be etched into my memory forever is the one when I had to put on my sweetest smile and congratulate Pep Guardiola after a last minute goal from Andres Iniesta knocked us out of the Champions League on away goals. During that interview all I could think about was the referee Tom Henning Øvrebø who’d denied penalty claim after penalty claim (so yes, I am that passionate fan too) but for those few minutes I had to be the professional. Strangely though, in this article I’m about to defend referees.

    The other day I sat an assistant referee test where I had to judge eight offside scenarios. Admittedly they ran in quick succession and the picture quality was not brilliant, but I am ashamed to say I got 50% correct…and therefore 50% wrong! Yes these were situations set up to appear challenging, but the point is that being a linesman is not easy and that the calls have to be made instantly, in real time. I think we forget just how many judgements we actually make having the luxury of a replay, something referees can only dream of. Add to that I was doing the test in the comfort of my own home, with no real pressure, not having run the lines and without thousands of fans (not to mention a global television audience) on my back.

    As soon as I had finished the test I felt pretty guilty and I told my husband (and twitter) that I’d never criticise a referee again. Of course I will, but I will try to remember these simple words “real time gives you a tough time”.

    One thing that infuriates me is when fans and managers (they should know better) imply the referee was in some way trying to cheat. Why on earth would they cheat? Their job depends on getting things right. I would argue that they are the most honest people on the pitch, and yet they can go from hero to zero in 90 minutes for just trying to do their job to the best of their ability. Give them five minutes of your time to understand the stress of getting it right.  Sit the test, and if you don’t get 8 out of 8 correct, then perhaps you will think twice the next time you criticise their “on the spot” decision.

    Take the test here and let us know your result.


      Since the announcement that the IFAB would be experimenting at grassroots level with the use of the sin bins many visitors to our website have sought clarification on how this would operate. Clearly the various associations around the world will determine where and in which competitions the use of sin bins will be allowed.

      I share with you below the recent publication by the IFAB which goes a long way to create the foundation for this experiment which will certainly impact on the game in the years to come.

      Laws of the Game 2017/18 - Guidelines for Temporary dismissals (sin bins)

      Reference to temporary dismissals (sin bins) for all or some cautions/yellow cards (YCs) in youth, veterans, disability and grassroots football, subject to the approval of the competition’s national FA, confederation or FIFA, whichever is appropriate.

      Reference to temporary dismissals is found in the Laws of the Game 2017/18: Law 5 – The Referee (Powers and duties):

      Disciplinary action

      The referee has the power to show yellow or red cards and, where competition rules permit, temporarily dismiss a player, from entering the field at the start of the match until after the match has ended, including during the half-time interval, extra time and kicks from the penalty mark

      A temporary dismissal is when a player commits a cautionable (YC) offence and is punished by an immediate ‘suspension’ from participating in the next part of that match. The philosophy is that an ‘instant punishment’ can have a significant and immediate positive influence on the behaviour of the offending player and, potentially, the player’s team.

      The national FA, confederation or FIFA, should approve (for publication in the competition rules) a temporary dismissal protocol within the following guidelines:

      Players only

      • Temporary dismissals apply to all players (including goalkeepers) but not for cautionable offences (YCs) committed by a substitute or substituted player

      Referee’s signal

      • The referee will indicate a temporary dismissal by showing a yellow card (YC) and then clearly pointing with both arms to the temporary dismissal area (usually the player’s technical area)

      The temporary dismissal period

      • The length of the temporary dismissal is the same for all offences
      • The length of the temporary dismissal should be between 10-15% of the total playing time (e.g. 10 minutes in a 90-minute match; 8 minutes in an 80-minute match)
      • The temporary dismissal period begins when play restarts after the player has left the field of play
      • The referee should include in the temporary dismissal period any time ‘lost’ for a stoppage for which ‘additional time’ will be allowed at the end of the half (e.g. substitution, injury etc...)
      • Competitions must decide who will help the referee time the dismissal period –
      • It could be the responsibility of the 4th official, or neutral assistant referee conversely it could be a team official
      • Once the temporary dismissal period has been completed, the player can return from the touchline with the referee’s permission, which can be given while the ball is in play
      • The referee has the final decision as to when the player can return
      • A temporarily dismissed player can not be substituted until the end of the used all its permitted substitutes)
      • If a temporary dismissal period has not been completed at the end of the first half (or the end of the second half when extra time is to be played) the remaining part of the temporary dismissal period is served from the start of the second half (start of extra time)
      • A player who is still serving a temporary dismissal at the end of the match is permitted to take part in Kicks from the Penalty Mark (penalties)

      Temporary dismissal area

      • A temporarily dismissed player should remain within the technical area (where one exists) or with the team’s coach/technical staff, unless ‘warming up’ (under the same conditions as a substitute)

      Offences before/during/after a temporary dismissal

      • A temporarily dismissed player who commits a cautionable (YC) or sending-off (RC) offence during their temporary dismissal period will take no further part in the match and may not be replaced or substituted

      Further disciplinary action

      • Competitions/national FAs will decide if temporary dismissals must be reported to the appropriate authorities and whether any further disciplinary action may be taken e.g. suspension for accumulating a number of temporary dismissals, as with cautions (YCs)

      Temporary dismissal systems

      A competition may use one of the following temporary dismissal systems:

      - System A - for all cautions (YCs)
      - System B - for some but not all cautions (YC)

      System A – temporary dismissal for all cautions (YCs)

      • All cautions (YCs) are punished with a temporary dismissal
      • A player who commits a 2nd caution (YC) in the same match:

      - will receive a second temporary dismissal and then takes no further part in the match

      - may be replaced by a substitute at the end of the second temporary dismissal period if the player’s team has not used its maximum number of substitutes (this is because the team has already been ‘punished’ by playing without that player for 2 x temporary dismissal periods)

      System B – temporary dismissal for some but not all cautions (YCs)*

      • A pre-defined list of cautionable (YC) offences will be punished by a temporary dismissal
      • All other cautionable offences are punished with a caution (YC)
      • A player who has been temporarily dismissed and then receives a caution (YC) continues playing
      • A player who has received a caution (YC) and then receives a temporary dismissal can continue playing after the end of the temporary dismissal period
      • A player who receives a second temporary dismissal in the same match will serve thetemporary dismissal and then takes no further part in the match. The player may be replaced by a substitute at the end of the second temporary dismissal period if the player’s team has not used its maximum number of substitutes
      • A player who receives a second caution (YC) in the same match will be sent off and takes no further part in the match and may not be replaced/substituted

      *Some competitions may find it valuable to use temporary dismissals only for cautions (YCs) for offence relating to ‘inappropriate’ behaviour, e.g.

      • Simulation
      • Deliberately delayed the opposing team’s restart of the match
      • Dissent or verbal gestures
      • Stopping a promising attack by holding, pulling, pushing or handball
      • Kicker illegally feinting at a penalty kick

      Frequently asked questions about temporary dismissals (FAQ's)

      What offences do temporary dismissals apply to?

      • Temporary dismissals are only for cautions (YCs)
      • Competitions may use temporary dismissals for all YCs or just some (usually those relating to unfair behaviour) – see System B (above)

      Who do temporary dismissals apply to?

      • Temporary dismissals only apply to players (including goalkeepers) – they are not used for substitutes, substituted players or team officials

      Are temporarily dismissals reported to the appropriate authority?

      • The national FA will decide if temporary dismissals must be reported after the match and if any further action results e.g. suspension for a number of temporary dismissals (as with YCs)

      How does the referee signal a temporary dismissal?

      • The referee signals a temporary dismissal by showing the yellow card (YC) and then clearly pointing with both arms to the temporary dismissal area (usually the player’s technical area)

      How long does the temporary dismissal last?

      • The temporary dismissal period:

      - is the same for all offences

      - should be between 10-15% of the total playing time (e.g. 10 minutes in a 90-minute match; 8 minutes in an 80-minute match)

      - begins when play restarts after the player has left the field of play

      - will include any time ‘lost’ for a stoppage for which ‘additional time’ will be allowed at the end of the half

      • Competitions must decide who will help the referee time the dismissal period e.g. delegate, 4th official or neutral assistant referee; conversely it could be a team official. What happens if the half ends and the temporary dismissal period has not been completed?
      • If a player’s temporary dismissal period is not over at the end of the first half, the remaining time is served from the start of the second half (this is the same at the end of the match if extra time is to be played)
      • If a player’s temporary dismissal period is not over at the end of the match, the player is permitted to take part in Kicks from the Penalty Mark (penalties)

      Where does the temporarily dismissed player go?

      • A temporarily dismissed player should stay in the team’s technical area; if there is no technical area the player should stay with the team’s coach/technical staff (unless warming up)

      Can a temporarily dismissed player warm up?

      • For reasons of injury prevention, a temporarily dismissed player is allow to warm up as if he/she were a substitute

      When can the temporarily dismissed player return?

      • Once the temporary dismissal period has been completed, the player can return from the touchline with the referee’s permission, which can be while the ball is in play

      Can a temporarily dismissed player be substituted?

      • A temporarily dismissed player can only be substituted at the end of their temporarily dismissal period. However, he/she can not be substituted if:
        • it is the player’s second temporary dismissal
        • the team has already used all its permitted substitutes

      What happens if a temporarily dismissed player commits another offence during a temporary dismissal?

      • A temporarily dismissed player who commits a caution (YC) or sending-off/red card (RC) offence during their temporary dismissal period is not allowed to play again in the match and may not be replaced or substituted

        Former Premier League midfielder Jason Jarrett has hit out at the FA and their referee development system, which he says prevents former players from being able to become referees. The 37 year old argues that it can take 10 years for a referee to rise from the bottom of the football pyramid to the top in the Premier League.

        ‘Why is it after 120 years or so and we have not had an ex pro as a referee?

        ‘I have progressed really fast. After five years as a referee, I am still earning £32 a game. Five years in the game. Five years on and it is still tough.' Read more.....

        Indeed, the list of former footballers who have taken up the whistle is a short one, one in particular was former Huddersfield Town, Bradford City and Chesterfield defender Steve Baines, who went on to have an eight-year stint as a referee in the nineties. You Are The Ref's very own Mark Halsey was a non-league goalkeeper before taking up the whistle. Others who have turned include Bob Matthewson from Bolton who became a FIFA referee, Mike Lowe and George McCabe also made the switch with the latter officiating at the 1966 World Cup Final.

        YATR's Keith Hackett said: “I’d like to defend the PGMOL from criticism on this one. The system of qualification for a referee is the responsibility of the Football Association and that is where the focus needs to be.”

        Back in 2014, Alan Biggs spoke to then Sheffield United defender Andy Butler, who himself had his own ambitions of becoming a referee.

          The English Premier League is one of the best, if not the best, competition in world football. Its nearest challengers would be La Liga and the Bundesliga, both of course producing top quality referees over many years.

          Premier League Games are watched in over 211 territories beamed live around the world thanks to the spectacular television coverage. The minimum twenty-two cameras at each game and the latest eye-in-the-sky piece of technology give viewers wonderful images that highlight the skill sets of the players.

          These cameras expose the frailties of players happy to go to ground easily in order to win a free kick or penalty kick. Instant replays and the use of the super slow-mo provide information to the viewer that currently is not available to the team of match officials. Goal line technology has delivered terrific results and makes life for the referee that much easier.

          Ariel challenges sometimes result in the player going to ground feigning injury attempting to get opponents into trouble. Television detects these negative aspects of a player’s performance.

          Officiating at the top level is so much more difficult than it used to be when I was an active referee in those early years of the formation of the Premier League. It was evident that something had to be done and the response was to set up a cadre of professional match officials.

          Referee coaching, performance analysis and appropriate sports science contributed in a positive manner to prepare the match officials to meet the increasing demands placed upon them.

          The outcome was a step change in the on-field performance of our officials with the likes of Poll, Webb, Halsey, Bennett, Durkin and Clattenburg receiving top class appointments at the very top echelon of the world game after delivering on a regular basis quality performances on the Premier League and in Europe

          The role of the PGMOL management team is to prepare this cadre of officials to deliver the very best performances on the field week-in week-out. They have to monitor the physical and mental ability to deal with the demands of a Premier League game. It is beyond belief that one of our up and coming top officials was expected to produce a performance of quality in last weekend’s Manchester City v Liverpool game.

          On the Monday he officiated Chelsea v Manchester United, the following Thursday he was officiating a top UEFA Europa League game between Besiktas and Olympiakos. Following a long flight returning to England on Friday he had one day to recover before driving to Manchester for his Premier League appointment. This young and fit referee can cope with the physical demands of the game. However, mental fatigue drains away your concentration and awareness requirements to cope with three games in such a tight time frame.

          My colleagues have with some sadness reported on many occasions over the last three years of the decline in refereeing standards. I have along with my colleague and former Premier League referee Mark Halsey received criticism of what is seen as our negative approach to our former colleagues. However, Mark and I have nearly three quarters of a century of active involvement in officiating, both of us representing our country at FIFA level.

          We therefore have a level of expertise in refereeing that we openly share with everyone. By offering our opinions up and coming referees can avoid the pitfalls that we are seeing our referees fall into on a regular basis.

          All we want to see is England providing and producing top quality officiating and for young referees to be afforded the opportunity to climb the ladder of success and perhaps become FIFA Referees through having a greater understanding of what is right and what is wrong.

          Someone at the Premier League and the PGMOL needs to read the excellent article in The Times following Sunday’s big game at the Etihad and the comments of the Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola. Here is the article:

          He would not comment on specific incidents, but it is clear that the Catalan, who has expressed dismay at the levels of officiating in England before this season, is unhappy with a number of decisions from referees this term.

          “You know my opinion about the referees,” he said. “My advice to them is that they have to speak to each other and they have to sit down on the table and review and talk urgently to make this sport better.

          “What happened this season is something I have never seen in my life? They have to sit and analyse why this amount of things happen, not [only] in Manchester City games, but in all the games.”

          Klopp thought that Oliver could have dismissed Otamendi for catching Mané.

          “It could have been a red card around Sadio’s situation, he was away and Otamendi could catch him,” Klopp said.

          The sad thing is that I share his view. Our referees are being let down by the PGMOL who are failing to offer appropriate coaching advice to our young referees. Michael Oliver has huge potential similar to that of Webb and Clattenburg in the past. However, he needs to understand that he is not the finished article.

          He threw caution to the wind in the way he officiated last Monday’s encounter between Chelsea v Manchester United. He puts his control at risk by not penalising foul challenges but applying advantage, leaving players on the ground wondering why they are not being protected.

          Then, in the Manchester City v Liverpool game, he took the same risky approach allowing the game to run almost out of control. He appeared to be drawn into the occasion. If Michael Oliver had put his foot on the ball and slowed things down his authority and control would have been raised.

          There was a time in both games that tempo management needed to be applied. Find those fouls, Michael, reduce the application of advantage, slow things down so that players understand that you are in full control.

          Let them know that you will protect them and not allow reckless challenges to go unpunished. Pep Guardiola is right, the referees need to start to act in a professional manner and start to operate as a team in a consistent manner. If grappling is to be punished then it cannot be Mike Dean left alone to try to bring players back into line.

          The PGMOL officials need to meet up on a weekly basis to review their performances by use of the video and to discuss how they as a group can avoid errors and deliver better and more consistent officiating to the Premier League. They should include the assistant referees because some of the poor officiating is down to poor teamwork.

          The PGMOL are short of quality officials and I say again that they need to sort themselves out and overcome the current problems.The current crop of officials - some have passed their sell by date - is on the decline with week-in week-out inconsistent performances resulting in the decline in the standard of English officiating.

          Someone in authority needs to take note of Pep Guardiola’s comments and act.

            Top cricket umpire Richard Kettleborough is urging football to press ahead with video reviews - and to encourage ex players into refereeing.

            Kettleborough, the world's leading Test official, is a fan of DRS in cricket and a keen observer of the changes on the way in football.

            Before taking up becoming an official, Richard was a first-class cricketer who appeared in 33 first-class matches for Yorkshire and Middlesex. He was appointed to the ECB list of first-class umpires in 2006, before steppingup further to the full International Panel of ICC Umpires in 2009. Since then he has won the David Shepherd Trophy for ICC Umpire of the year in 2013, 2014 and 2015.

            Here he offers a unique perspective in an interview with Alan Biggs of You Are The Ref on Sheffield Live TV

              Back at the start of the 2014 Premier League season, RefCam was created to not only provide live text commentary on televised games, but also, primarily, to give a unique expert referee insight into the big decisions that take place live during games.

              It provides an informed voice to all match officials and fans alike, on the key incidents within games, and whether the law has been applied correctly, all from a refereeing perspective.

              The aim is to strengthen and improve the level of training currently being offered by the referee administrators of national federations and to look at the issues facing referees across the globe, providing exclusive match analysis of refereeing performances in the Premier League, FA Cup, Champions League and MLS.

              The RefCam team is made up of vastly experienced coaches with many years’ standing gained from their roles as professional match officials, referee coaches and assessors. The text commentary is very much similar to the type of notes produced by a referee assessor, and forms the basis of their performance review of match officials.

              During the recent FA Cup quarter final between Chelsea and Manchester United, a game that saw a number of key incidents, RefCam provided live text commentary through Mark Halsey. With years of officiating experience to his name, Mark was able to provide a top expert refereeing analysis of all the incidents, in real time.

              Gianluca Rocchi will be under scrutiny tonight when Man City face Monaco in the Champions League

              The sending off of Manchester United midfielder Ander Herrera was one that caused much debate among pundits and fans. Halsey, seconds after the card was produced said: "I believe Michael could have managed that second yellow card, in my opinion it was just a careless challenge."

              He went on to say in his match report, "In my opinion the sending off changed the game completely. Looking back on Michael's performance I felt that his game management wasn't what it should be, his player management wasn't what it should be and his awareness wasn't what it should have been."

              You can view his full report by clicking here.

              RefCam will continue to provide unrivaled referee analysis throughout the rest of the season, beginning tonight in the Champions League where Manchester City look to continue their European journey.


                Author: Alan Biggs

                Michael Oliver pulled out the plum tie but was left sticking out like a sore thumb after souring an otherwise fine weekend for Select Group referees in the FA Cup and Premier League.

                Oliver became the central figure in an unwanted sense at Stamford Bridge after controversially sending off Manchester United’s Ander Herrera in their 1-0 Cup quarter final defeat to Chelsea.

                It was not an isolated error according to the Ref Cam blog of You Are The Ref’s Mark Halsey, who provided a running analysis on how the official could have contained a fiery encounter rather than coming close to letting it run out of control.

                Indeed, PGMOL have kept faith in Oliver with the latest round of Premier League appointments putting him on the Sunday late afternoon kick off between Manchester City and Liverpool. YATR has pinpointed the learning points from the game at Stamford Bridge and hope the North East born referee takes on board the advice.

                Halsey and his YATR colleagues rate Oliver highly as a contender to take over the mantle of the departing Mark Clattenburg. However, they feel he can learn a lot from failing his latest high-pressure examination.

                “In my opinion the sending off changed the game completely,” said Halsey who felt Herrera’s second caution did not warrant the yellow card that triggered his first half dismissal, a careless rather than reckless challenge.

                It was not the first or only time that Oliver failed to make the distinction according to Halsey, who pinpointed an early cautionable offence by Matteo Darmian on Eden Hazard that aggrieved his opponents.

                He added: “Michael was lacking in game management, player management and awareness. And he failed to slow the game down when it was running away from him.”

                Halsey also asserted that United’s Rojo was “lucky not to have been sent off for a stamp on Hazard” later in the game, although this was more the responsibility of assistant referee Stuart Burt in standing close to the incident but not reacting to it.

                Keith Hackett commented: “Sadly Michael got caught up in the emotion of the occasion. He needs to demonstrate more authority by ‘putting his foot on the ball’ and slowing things down.”

                Oliver’s performance was in contrast to the many praised on The Ref Show from across the weekend.

                However, it was a game of much higher demands, for which Oliver was specially selected, and Professional Game Match Officials will be disappointed that Oliver did not bring the round of games to a totally successful conclusion.

                  On the The Ref Show this week, Alan Biggs is joined by former referee chief Keith Hackett, and ex Sheffield Wednesday striker David Hirst, to analyse and dissect the weekend's football. A positive weekend for referees in England meant that discussion moved to the Old Firm derby where Celtic were denied a win late on against fierce rivals Rangers. But there was controversy with Celtic's Griffiths feeling he should have been awarded a penalty but referee Robert Madden turned down their appeals.

                  There's praise in the Premier League and Football League for referees including Robert Madley, whilst in the FA Cup, racist chanting reared it's ugly head with South Korean forward Son Heung-min the subject of abuse from Millwall fans. The panel give their view on all these matters and more...

                    Britain Football Soccer - Manchester United v Arsenal - Premier League - Old Trafford - 19/11/16 Groundstaff tend to the pitch before the match Reuters / Phil Noble Livepic EDITORIAL USE ONLY. No use with unauthorized audio, video, data, fixture lists, club/league logos or "live" services. Online in-match use limited to 45 images, no video emulation. No use in betting, games or single club/league/player publications. Please contact your account representative for further details.

                    A sincere thank you to all those unsung heroes - the football groundstaff.

                    During my era of refereeing from the 1960s to the 90s I can remember at this time of the season ploughing through muddy conditions and regularly being called in on Friday afternoon or early Saturday to inspect a pitch somewhere.

                    Some of us can remember that muddy field where the great George Best weaved his way through the mud to pause on the goal line and then tap the ball into the back of the net.

                    If you visit the National Football Museum in Manchester you will see that iconic photo of the great Sir Tom Finney creating a wall of water as he slides and attempts to pass the ball.

                    Nowadays I am amazed how far playing surface technology has moved with vast sums of money spent on the structural make up of the field.

                    Undersoil heating is taken for granted and in the middle of winter we see regular watering, even at half-time in some stadiums.

                    Then we see the bank of high powered halogen lights being wheeled out to aid the growth of the grass which, at some grounds, is weaved in to blend with plastic artificial grass.

                    The credit, however, must go to those unsung heroes, the groundstaff and the head groundsmen.

                    Their hours of hard work and dedication produce a playing surface that enables those skilful players to demonstrate their technical skills - and there are fewer occasions when our weekend is disrupted by a cancellation.

                      Football Soccer - Cruzeiro v Corinthians - Brazilian Series A Championship - Mineirao stadium, Belo Horizonte, Brazil, 11/12/16. Players observe a minute's silence as respect for the Chapecoense players and the victims of the Colombia plane crash. REUTERS/Washington Alves

                      It can be a lonely task to be the man out in the middle – so how much support should referees receive from the football authorities?

                      Brazil’s new refereeing supremo seems content to hang them out to dry.  “After every game,” says Coronel Marcos Marinho, “we are going to put up on the site of the CBF (Brazil’s FA equivalent) videos of controversial moments, we’ll give our analysis, with the official position of the Referees Commission, and say if the decision was correct or not.”  This is a radical break with convention.

                      Refereeing decisions are the target of complaints everywhere.  But the flood is especially big in Brazil – in part because of low job security for coaches and the fact that the position of club president is elected, so that playing to the gallery with conspiracy theories about refereeing never goes out of fashion.

                      Coronel Marinho’s public trial by video runs the risk of legitimising these complaints – though the Coronel himself clearly believes that many of them have some foundation.

                      “There are referees,” he says, “who have been in the system for ten years and are still making the same mistakes, even with training, orientation and evaluations.”

                      And so changes will be made to this year’s national championship, which kicks off in May.  “We want to reduce the mistakes and have a more consistent criteria,” he says, justifying his option to create an elite squad of officials to take care of first and second division games.

                      In the case of these top referees, the retirement age has been raised from 45 to 50, with the over-45s having to pass physical examinations in order to continue.  The maximum age for third and fourth division referees will be 42, and 40 for lower levels.  The obvious aim here is to renew from the bottom up, to clear out older officials who are not seen as top class and bring on the younger generation.

                      The process of evaluation will also be tightened, with referees to receive a performance analysis 48 hours after the game.  “We’ll be looking at technical, tactical and disciplinary aspects, as well as what we call the content of the game, the emotional side, the personality of the ref and how he controls the match.”  That is not all.  “The referee will also receive a video of edited highlights of the key decisions, with comments on whether he got it right or wrong.”

                      But it would appear that everyone else may have already seen this on the CBF website.  The doubt remains about whether public humiliation is the best way to improve long term results.  “You teach assistants and referees always to make the decision on what they see first,” said Marinho last year.  “If they start to think about what happened, they will start to make mistakes.”  But might the awareness of public judgement make them a little scared to trust their instincts?

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